How to Install External Antennas on NETGEAR WNR3500L

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Peter Redmer
Peter Redmer's picture
How to Install External Antennas on NETGEAR WNR3500L

Through some regular Google searching I found this sweet tutorial on installing external antennas into your WNR3500L. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks pretty awesome.

http://www.yzy-oui-fi.com/dashboard/wiki/index.php/Exchange_embed_wireless_antennas_for_external_antennas_on_Netgear_WNR3500L

Has anybody here tried this, or a similar hack? If so, I'd love to see some pics and hear how effective it's been.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
Hello,

Hello,

I did it also for Linksys E2000(*) which use the same connectors (U.Fl).

WNR3500L is handwome to modify, its box is squared, easy to drill without damaging (it is more difficult with E2000 box), and U.Fl connectors could be find easily.

I could say that there is no risk to damage the device and that you could come back to the "factory" easily...U.fl are easy (un)Plugable connectors.

I did not display graph on the wiki, but like every wifi device, the rendering is highly increase with high gain antenna.

If you have any question, do not hesitate to contact me (from yzy-oui-fi.com contact form)

(*)http://wiki.yzy-oui-fi.com/dashboard/wiki/index.php/Exchange_embed_wirel...

Note:
here are French translation URL of both procedure

http://wiki.yzy-oui-fi.com/dashboard/wiki/index.php/Modifier_les_Antenne...

http://wiki.yzy-oui-fi.com/dashboard/wiki/index.php/Modifier_les_Antenne...

Mico
Mico's picture
Hello,

Hello,
Although I find the yzy-oui link useful for my WNR3500L project, I wish it could get into more details about the parts for people like me :)

I would like to ask if this would work for my 3500L. What is the U.FL connector on the router's board? Female or male? I cannot tell by looking at it. It kinda depends on who you look at it :) I THINK it is female but maybe male :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130585099729#ht_2586w...

Thanks for the feedback.

Mico
Mico's picture
I guess I found the answer

I guess I found the answer but yzy-oui does not talk about soldering. I wish they could explain little better how they put those connectors? Also, does it matter what kind of antenna? b/g or n, does it matter? I thought antenna was antenna.

http://www.myopenrouter.com/forum/thread/19162/Please-help-me-identify-t...

jorobe
jorobe's picture
The wnr3500 does not use the

The wnr3500 does not use the u.fl connections, all though they will clip on and connect to ground the antenna wire does not connect. The antennas in this mod are basically expensive scenery and are doing nothing, the router is still using the internal antennas.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
@ Mico:

@ Mico:
there is some difference between B/G and A kind of antenna. B/G is 2,4ghz and A is 5ghz, So basicaly if you used 22 DBI 802.11A antenna with B/G antenna the gain will be divide by ~2.

@ Jorobe:
Sorry but the U,Fl connector embed in the WNR3500L is not only ground welded, the center wire is also soldered to the main board.

So this means that the antenna connected to it will be used to. I agree with the fact that if you do not remove internal antenna ,the total gain will be divide by ~2.

Trouble is that internal antanna is placed on main board and could not be easily removed. But if you add 10dbi outside Antenna, it should give you 5dbi/added antenna instead of 2dbi. In addition your antenna will not be in a middle of electronik noise (in the middle of main bord), and you could also used directionnal antenna or patch or sectorial or omni antenna.

Additional Information:

Someone contact me in pm wondering what kind of external antenna to use after modifying the device. I suggest to be carefull with 10 dbi antenna found on e-bay comming from China and so on. If you want to have something with good rendering you better choice something like Fontena antenna from Fon community. Those antenna are 10 dbi Sectorial RP-SMA With something like 2 meters low loss wire. It is not expensive and you will not discover that it is 2dbi antenna In 10 dbi plastic rubber...

Mico
Mico's picture
This is what I purchased.

This is what I purchased.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270648774774

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
So here is another url:

So here is another url:

http://stores.ebay.com/Wireless-Online-Depot/

I used it Since 2008 they are very serious and antenna are made in Art rules.

here is fontena URL:

http://corp.fon.com/en/products/fontenna/

jorobe
jorobe's picture
It is not a u.fl connection,

It is not a u.fl connection, and as I already said a u.fl connector will clip on but not connect as its not u.fl on the board. The added antenna are not used as they simply are not connected.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
@jorobe

@jorobe

I guess you missed a lot. We add a U.fl/RP-Sma pigtail to the WNR3500L then we plugged an External Antenna.

Last post was about Antenna that have good Rendering. Fontena Antenna is Rp-Sma so it will plug to the rp-sma connector of the pigtail without any issue.

The other url is for Outdoor High Gain antennas. This kind of Antenna have N male connector (Usualy), so you will have to buy(or built) an RP-SMA / N female Wire if you select this kind of antennas...

If you find Antenna with UF.l connectors out of box, there is a chance that the Gain never goes up to 2dbi(because there isn't high gain antenna with such a connectors)...

jorobe
jorobe's picture
No I just wasn't talking

No I just wasn't talking about aerials, the wnr3500 boards do NOT use u.fl connections and u.fl connectors will not connect properly with the board making those antennas expensive scenery.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
jorobe said: No I just wasn't

jorobe said: No I just wasn't talking about aerials, the wnr3500 boards do NOT use u.fl connections and u.fl connectors will not connect properly with the board making those antennas expensive scenery.

So could you tell me what is that ?

http://wiki.yzy-oui-fi.com/dashboard/wiki/images/2/2f/DSC00017.jpg

http://www.yzy-oui-fi.com/video/wnr3500l-ufl.ogv

It seems to me that it is WNR3500L Board, that it use UF.l and that i connected UF.l/RP-SMA pigtails on it....?!?!

Sure if you put 3x22dbi pannel antenna on it, the price will be expensive...But it only depend on what kind of Area you planed to cover with your device.

I'm not sure to understand what you mean... :(

jorobe
jorobe's picture
I could repeat myself?

I could repeat myself?
Those are not u.fl sockets on the wnr3500 board, I'm not sure how to make that any clearer?

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
You could make it clearer

You could make it clearer saying what iou ould tell me what is it exactlyinstead

Curiously this look like UF.l, and UF.l fit with it...

I would be happy if you could say what it is instead of saying what it isn't.

I could follow you and say this is not :
- RP-TNC
- RP-SMA
- N
- BNC

I'm not sure this is really helpfull ...

jorobe
jorobe's picture
Its very helpful as people

Its very helpful as people would be wasting money doing this.
You should add u.fl to the list but since they look like u.fl connection them I'm sure your right and that you shouldn't bother actually testing or checking it.
If you had bothered then you'd have found out they are Murata connections, but I'm sure your eyes are so accurate that you don't need to bother checking before making videos showing how to plug and unplug, a plug.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
Ok so let's get clear...

Ok so let's get clear...
Murata is a Firm...A company...not a connector! they made connectors...
UF.l is a standard connector. You could used both because what you call Murata is nothing else than an UF.l connector...

I test it and curiously it works for me, but maybe you 're right and i'm wrong, i spent 6 ? for 3 pigtails , it's very expensive...and probably i was dreaming that the wnr3500l i had get a better range...:D

if you want to buy an UF.l connector at Murata...this your choice.

Here is the common commercial name of UF.l: Hirose

Netgear, like Linksys, usualy used a Standard connectors for every device designed for open community, But maybe you already noticed it (hope i will not have to do a video that explain this).

So let's stop trolling.

If you want to help then give Murata reference of the connector. Then we could compare and check if this is not Hirose or UF.l or something different

jorobe
jorobe's picture
Yes Murata make the

Yes Murata make the connections, so there for it is a Muerata connector, Murata MM8430-2610 to be exact, difficult concept I know. And no they are not compatible with u.fl connectors, they simply aren?t.
And they are standard connectors, just, and I'm sure you noticed this, standard for testing, and were not intended to be used for antenna, hence why they are not standard antenna connections. Again difficult concept, I know.
You are imagining any improvement because those connector are not making signal contact with the board.
And I consider any useless attachments to be a waste of money, regardless of their cost, of course as long as people know that aerials connected like these are purely decorative then that?s fine too.
And I'm sorry that you find someone trying to help people make informed decisions, to be troll. But I don't make internet guides so, what do I know.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
So the pigtail should be

So the pigtail should be MXHS83QE3000.

Trouble :
- it is Sma connectors and not RP-SMA
- the pigtail cost is 50? / pigtail
- Actualy i did not find SWF plug without wires and SMA connectors...

Of course you could use several adapters to go from SMA to RP-SMA or N, but the cost will increase...

jorobe
jorobe's picture
Indeed, hence why others who

Indeed, hence why others who have reported adding antenna to the wnr3500s have taken the risk and cut the u.fl connector off a standard antenna cable and soldered the wire directly to the board. Its risky as you can of course damage the board if your not careful with the solder, but the alternative is costly and potentially time consuming as you need to find the parts.

benryanau
benryanau's picture
Am I correct in understanding

Am I correct in understanding this board does NOT use the standard Hirose U.FL connectors?
Rather, the connectors are Murata MM8430-2610 RF test connectors which are physically incompatible with U.FL's?

I don't have this router yet (it's on it's way) but I'm doing homework on it before it arrives.

Some internets-reading showed while people have stuck U.FL-RPSMA pigtails in it, it's not clear if they replaced the onboard connector or whether that connector will physically mate to a U.FL pigtail yet be electrically incompatible.

I would unfortunately suspect this to be case - most of the onboard connectors for internal-antenna routers I've seen aren't connectors at all - they're RF test points which incorporate tiny switching contacts. And they don't work with U.FL's.

Anyhow you couldn't just plug in a pigtail to these jacks, you'd have to cut the PCB track to the onboard antenna otherwise you'll have all sorts of problems with impedance and VSWR.

Hope someone knows the real story of this router's antennas!
Cheers

jorobe
jorobe's picture
Yes your right, their the

Yes your right, their the murata kind for testing and they are not compatible. I have placed u.fl connections on them and tested the connection and the antenna cable does not make any contact with the board.
Personally I am going to strip the boards protective coat around the antennas, cut them, and then solder some pigtails directly in their place. That way they'll take the place of the antennas rather than the test port, need to wait for some parts and time to do it though.
But, there is an easier way.
http://www.myopenrouter.com/forum/thread/19162/Please-help-me-identify-t...

benryanau
benryanau's picture
Ah, thanks. I'd prefer to

Ah, thanks. I'd prefer to solder U.FL's on then attach pigtails, rather than solder directly but each to their own.

I can't see the "easier way" in that thread.. what do you mean?

benryanau
benryanau's picture
Hmm I found something which

Hmm I found something which might be the answer..
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/518923438/_Miniature_SMT_GSC_Type_RF.html
It's a pre-built cable assembly - might be normal polarity SMA at the end, but that's no problem. The PCB would still need to be cut/drilled to isolate the PCB antennas.

They ship minimum 5pcs, dunno what they're worth but they couldn't be more than $5 ea..

jorobe
jorobe's picture
They soldered the pigtail

They soldered the pigtail antenna lead into the solder point just behind the murata and the cable shield onto the murata case, then they just had to cut the pcb trace to the aerial.
I have no idea where to get the u.fl sockets, but regular u.fl to RP-SMA pigtails are fairly cheap on ebay, about 1 pound each here in the uk, including postage.

Jorabi
Jorabi's picture
I am modding a WNR3500 (v1)

I am modding a WNR3500 (v1) and there are three antenna connections on the main pcb board. They are the Murata connectors, so I am going to solder the antenna to the board.

But how can I tell what band each connection is for? I only want to add an antenna for the band that I use. I have searched for diagrams and schematics, nothing found.

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
"But how can I tell what band

"But how can I tell what band each connection is for? I only want to add an antenna for the band that I use. I have searched for diagrams and schematics, nothing found."

The WNR3500L is Dual-band....not Dual Radio.

So connectors are for both band

Jorabi
Jorabi's picture
Then all three connection

Then all three connection points are the same? Why did they put three?

benryanau
benryanau's picture
yzy-oui-fi said: "But how can

yzy-oui-fi said: "But how can I tell what band each connection is for? I only want to add an antenna for the band that I use. I have searched for diagrams and schematics, nothing found." The WNR3500L is Dual-band....not Dual Radio. So connectors are for both band

 

yzy-oui-fi said: "But how can I tell what band each connection is for? I only want to add an antenna for the band that I use. I have searched for diagrams and schematics, nothing found." The WNR3500L is Dual-band....not Dual Radio. So connectors are for both band

What he said. You can just solder one connector, use the firmware option (DD-WRT etc) to select left or right antenna to use, to lock the radio to the ext ant port. You'll need to test with a wifi client to see if your ext port is left or right...

 

yzy-oui-fi
yzy-oui-fi's picture
there is Three antenna,

there is Three antenna, because it is 802.11n device, this is spacial antenna.
Old device (802.11bg) have one our two connectors, but 802.11n routers have one more to increase spacial(and so bandwidth)

benryanau
benryanau's picture
yzy-oui-fi said: there is

yzy-oui-fi said: there is Three antenna, because it is 802.11n device, this is spacial antenna. Old device (802.11bg) have one our two connectors, but 802.11n routers have one more to increase spacial(and so bandwidth)

Ah okay. Haven't seen this model.

Can you pop some pics up somewhere of the board (radio/connector/antenna area), and of the antennas? Then I can tell you more, like which might be "primary" (for non-MIMO) etc.

However if there's only 3 antenna connectors, and the model is definitely 802.11a + 802.11g/n (eg 2.4 and 5.8 Ghz) then the antennas are dual-band design.

In this case an improper external antenna will degrade whatever band is outside the antenna design freq.
As I understand it, a dual-band dipole/monopole would need an element 6cm long to act as a 1/2 wave antenna at 2.4ghz, and a full-wave at 5.4ghz.

At longer ranges, your 11n MIMO thruput will suffer unless you use three external antennas but just using one antenna (on the main/primary antenna connection) will still work ok at shorter ranges.

 

 

full-wave is about 124mm,

jorobe
jorobe's picture
The router uses 2.4ghz, and

The router uses 2.4ghz, and its 2.4ghz only.
As has been said, multiple antennas are for increased mimo, the wnr3500 is not a dual radio router so all the antennas can only use one wavelength at a time anyway.
But the router doesn't support 5ghz full stop, it is not wireless-a, so even if you set it to wireless-n only, it will still only communicate at 2.4ghz.

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